Hi Shane, welcome to the OLF! We have a few mandolin builders here also, as you probably read, i'm about to start building 2 F5's so thanks for the sound advice!
Please post a pic or 3 of your first effort when you have a chance!
Serge
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| Mando top-1 Piece or 2 Piece? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=7611 |
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:27 am ] |
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Which is better structurally, and tone-wise: a 1 piece top or a 2 piece jointed top? Tracy |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:53 am ] |
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Good question and a timely one as i'm about to start 2 F5's Thanks Tracy! |
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| Author: | Guitdolin [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:44 pm ] |
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Hello all. I've been lurking for a few weeks and really enjoying everything. I'm an extreme ROOKIE at building instruments, so take my input with a grain of salt. I've gotten one mandolin done. I had to remove the first top after the center seam split about an hour after I strung it up in the white the first time. 2 reasons: I used Titebond II to join the top (NOT the right glue for that, I was told after the fact). Also, I carved the recurve between the bridge and the tailpiece a little thin. Anyway...a 1-piece back would have at least not have required the glue. It wouldn't matter if you carve too thin though. Most of the opinion I've gotten over at the Luthier forum at MandolinCafe.com seems to agree that there's no difference in tone or structural functionality between 1- and 2-piece tops - or backs, for that matter. (Assuming you use hide glue and join the 2-piece plates properly). |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:06 pm ] |
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Hi Shane, welcome to the OLF! We have a few mandolin builders here also, as you probably read, i'm about to start building 2 F5's so thanks for the sound advice!
Please post a pic or 3 of your first effort when you have a chance!
Serge |
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| Author: | Mario [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:09 pm ] |
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In theory, one piece VS two piece should not make a difference in tone, given that all other factors that DO contribute to tone are also identical. BUT....! It will be rare to find a piece of quarter sawn spruce, 11 inches wide, one inch thick, with uniform grain, density, and stiffness right across, while it is rather easy to find 5.5" wide quartered spruce, that once bookmatched, has identical properties in each half. I have some potential one pice mandolin tops here, from the same log(s) that my other mando top-wood comes from, so some day, I'll answer this ne for myself <g> Some much to learn, so little time... |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:33 pm ] |
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Mario, i know that on a guitar, the pull by the strings is very strong(200 and some pounds PSI, how many PSI for a mandolin please? I'm thinking 8 strings for a small top here.... |
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| Author: | Mario [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:08 pm ] |
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According to D'Addario, about 182 lbs for a set of J-74(medium) mandolin strings.... Guitars are a bit less... |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:14 pm ] |
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Thanks Mario, i actually thought that guitars had the biggest pull, i'll keep that in mind when building my nandolins!
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:10 pm ] |
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Mario, Thanks for the great info! The reason I ask is because I'm going to get my top wood at Simeon Chambers tomorrow to pic out my wood and he has some engleman tops that are 11" wide. HERE is an example of what I'm talking about. I'll go pick it out by hand, but he says that he has some nice master grade 1 piece tops perfectly quartered. I'm specifically looking for high medullary ray content and good tap tone. So I'll get a 1 piece top if I can find a good master grade one, and let you know if it makes a good mando. But being my first, I'm sure so many other factors will contribute to the sound of it. I was just thinking that a wood glued joint may be stronger than a solid top, but I guess I'll find out. Thanks everyone! By the way Mario, if you want to calculate string tension, HERE is a great site to do your own calculations. I love this site! Tracy |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:38 pm ] |
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Thanks for the links Tracy! |
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| Author: | Mark Tripp [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:36 pm ] |
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I have some of Simeon's Engleman - can't wait to try it on the next F5! -Mark |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:38 pm ] |
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Hey Mark, i'm gonna be counting on you too for F5 building questions, ok bud?
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:01 am ] |
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I've built a couple of guitars with tops from Simeon. He sell some nice Englemann! Good luck Tracy, and of course you know, we want pics when you're done. |
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| Author: | Sam Price [ Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:50 am ] |
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Tracy, Martinedwards has made a mando with a four peice walnut back. I have seen this instrument and the joins are seamless, and the back is as strong as a one piece. I guess it's all in the join and the glue... |
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| Author: | Sam Price [ Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:54 am ] |
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Avalon guitars also specialise in multiple joined tops.. Avalon A12 |
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| Author: | Mark Tripp [ Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:18 am ] |
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Serge ask away! I'll be asking you too! -Mark |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:35 am ] |
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Thanks Mark! |
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| Author: | martinedwards [ Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:02 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Serge Poirier] Mario, i know that on a guitar, the pull by the strings is very strong(200 and some pounds PSI, how many PSI for a mandolin please? I'm thinking 8 strings for a small top here....[/QUOTE] ah, but tha mando has a tailpiece so the bridge is pushed INTO the top, and not pulled OFF it like on a guitar..... BTW thanks Sam!!! |
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:03 am ] |
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Serge and Mark, I just got back from Simeon's place, and he has got a very nice spread of tops for guitars, mando's, and violins. I got a 1 piece top that has wider grain lines, but perfectly quartered and great tap tone, and I got a very tight grained 2-piece top with nice tap, but less quarter, but very white. I'll have to decide which one is better for my first. Also, I bought a practice 2 piece top for $5. He has them laying around, and does sell them, but doesn't really advertise them. So if you do order from him, ask him to throw in a $5 practice top so you can practice carving and finishing on this instead of a nicer piece. Can't wait to get started! Tracy |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:44 pm ] |
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Thanks for the tip Tracy and good luck with your carving, please share your progress with us!
Serge |
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